LAM designing

  • Last Post 26 July 2018
Nightstalker666 posted this 12 July 2018

okay so I've loved LAM's since watching old robotech, macross, and transformers back in the 90's with my dad playing the old DOS and tabletop varients. 

I have maxtech, total warfare, and a bunch of the other "new" rulebooks on PDF. here's my problem: I need to know if MASC and superchargers affect Fighter-mode, I can see the supercharger helping but what would myomer have to do with jet propulsion? 

also I'm wondering if there is a ruleset (tech 3 obviously) that officially allows LAM's to utilize xl engines or any of the other gear that LAM's aren't allowed to use (crit-space armors and I.S., for prime examples) of course I could over-rule on account of house rules but I want RaW/Tro/canon/legit or whatever u call it these days. 


ps. I used to be on the old solaris7 and "Icehellion" is the only name I remember that I still see in the active member list. 

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icehellion posted this 12 July 2018

I am not the only one from the old time.


No XL Engine, no special Armour (but armoured components, yes), no Endo-Steel, no Supercharger.


Thunder posted this 12 July 2018

And no expanded rules to allow it, since the newest set of rules is the one that Disallowed it.  Oh well, they haven't taken my Improved Jump Jets that I've noticed.  Things are going well, just not as well as they used to.

Nightstalker666 posted this 14 July 2018

the reason why I asked about the LAM thing was secondary btw, The Drawing Board that I use (I may need to check updates, idk) allows me to use almost all of those things its not supposed to and I've seen designs posted on various sites and forums that do too. that's why is asked because I wanted to find all the RaW for the construction and rules. trying to get all the Tro rules on the subject into one place has been a bit of a hassle with PDF's that the "find" feature wont work on. 

My starting question is still bugging me. 

I want to know official or well-established house rule; if I take a LAM with MASC, Turbocharger, and Improved jumpjets, the "speed demon" piloting perk and or whatever similar relevant perks and additional boosts (Like satellite navigation adding one point to the end total of your speed) would apply in each mode. specifically I think the supercharger would continue effectiveness in all modes but I'm sure MASC is only helpful where the muscle movements of the mech are involved, not its jet propulsion systems. 

psa little more looking around and Thunder and Skyhigh I remember well. Nice to see you guys still around. I'm trying out the new BattleTech 2018 from GoG and my poor computer is barely running it but that and "War Robots" (phone app) got me feeling all nostalgic and DnD's been slow lately.

Nightstalker666 posted this 14 July 2018

NS-86A5 LAM Nightstalker the Shadow walker

Chassis: Unknown
Power Plant: Unknown 275 XXL (Clan)
Cruising Speed: 53.75
Maximum Speed: 86
Jump Jets: Unknown
   Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown with CASE
   1 Gauss Rifle
   2 SRM 2s
Manufacturer: Unknown
   Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown with Angel ECM Suite
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown with TAG, Special Targeting Computer

       A well known clan deserter whose mech designing has proven
   legendary. the Nighstalker line of mechs are characterized by their
   use of a Gauss rifle as the main armorment. this design is more
   stealthy than its previous counterparts and squeezes every ounce out
   of its ultra-expensive parts.
       Getting setup in an ambush/sniper position then calling in arty
   while setting ablaze the targets and surroundings with inferno rounds
   before jetting off is how Vlad likes to pilot this mech in battle.

       A stealthy revamp on the old Nightstalker line of mechs that used
   Shadow hawk and Its LAM varient as the base chassis model and shape.
   Maintaining it's arm-mounted Gaussrifle that has been at the core of
   the Nightstalker design line this version incorporates stealth and
   targeting systems that make the most of each and every shot even if
   it's no from his mechs ammo bins.

       Vladmir Kerensky Draconavich's personal custom-made mech used for
   guerilla warfare tactics.
       as a mild variant on the MaxTech rules for a handheld weapon, I
   want to envision this gauss rifle to be like a mech scaled Barrett 
   rifle with a BORS sight equivalent by having the targeting computer
   is integral to the weapon. also 4 tons of armor shaped to make the
   buttstock usable as a melee pick that offers a critical chance as AP
   ammo but as a melee option to a weapon that wouldn't otherwise be
   useful if things got close. the ammo is in clips by the ton and are
   carried in rear-mounted armored sheaths for one clip on each rear side
   torso that act like CASE. the pick is also made to latch into a mount
   on the shoulder to hang the rifle over the back of the mech to free
   up hands. note the arm-mounted Inferno-tubes can have been purposely
   angled so as to maintain effectiveness while both hands are occupied
   with the gauss handheld weapon system. in fighter mode the mount lines
   up with the nose arc but its critical location is in the fuselage.
   the weapon system actually puts him overweight by four tons or more.
   But I also would set the base mech up to max armor and switch to
   nul-sig and clan ferro since the null-sig couldn't be equipped with
   targeting computer and the weapon pod solved that interference, and
   keep tabs on how much extra tonnage the mechs actually going to be
   carrying and the speed in all the varied modes and possible weights
   will need its own chart as a side sheet to the character. also a small
   pulse laser sidearm for antipersonnel that can be used one handed
   (envision scenario of mech being ambushed while bracing against a
   redwood, next turn the pilot takes the left hand off the rifle and
   draws the pistol, turn after; firing the SPL and SRM's while carrying
   the rifle in the righthand and jumping away) the pistol could be
   dropped for tonnage without a major boohoo but losing the rifle would
   cause murderous bloody tears to fly.
       I've some homebuilt munchtek for superveritech equipment I wanna
   use on this but I have to dig out the old notebook those rules are
   in. I remember it could only weight up to half of the carrying mechs
   base weight, but would add wings in all modes allow a secondary
   engine to literally attach to the mechs engine but the back armor had
   to be completely cleared so I made it so you could armor and equip
   the backpack like a giant pod for weapons, ammo, armor, engine,
   jumpjets, heat sinks and most equipment types (debating whether
   Targeting equipment could be shared such as adding a targeting
   computer, satellite equipment, or a C3. maybe at least limit it to a
   Slave unit or C3i on the grounds that disposable equipment would
   never be used to house the rare expensive core to a C3 network)
   debating also whether Bulky equipment should be allowed such as XL
   engines or ferrofibrous armor. any jumpjets added to the
   superveritech equpment (here-on called SVE) pod. also any jumpjets
   added have to be factored to the mechs weight when combined with the
   SVE's weight, just as the mechs movement base movement becomes based
   on the total mechweight and combined engine ratings from the base
   mech and SVE. the SVE does not have to include an engine but then the
   rules for mech lift and carry come into play and probly would further
   limit the weight limit on the SVE.

Known Variants:
       Previous variant had no ECM to activate the stealth armor. I'm
   gunna say that originally this mech had lostech stealth armor that
   needed no ECM but when that ran out he had to revamp to fit one as he
   replace the original stealth armor with modern non-lostech.

NS-86A5 LAM Nightstalker the Shadow walker

Technology Base: - Mixed (Clan Chassis) - Level 3 (Land-Air Mech)
Equipment                                                Mass
Internal Structure: - Composite                         2.75
Engine:                275 XXL (Clan)                   5.17
    Walking MP:         5[12]
    Running MP:         8
    Jumping MP:         4
Heat Sinks:            10(20) - (C) Double                 0
Gyro: - Extra-Light                                      1.5
Cockpit: - Enhanced Imaging                                3
Armor Factor:          173 - Stealth                   10.81

                     Internal          Armor
                    Structure          Value
Head                    3                9
Center Torso           18               24
Center Torso(rear)                      12
R/L Torso              13               20
R/L Torso(rear)                          6
R/L Arm                 9               18
R/L Leg                13               20

Weapons and Ammo                     Location   Critical  Tonnage
(C) SRM 2                               LA          1      0.5
(C) SRM 2                               LA          1      0.5
(C) SRM 2 Ammo - Inferno                LA          1        1
Jump Jet                                LT          2      0.5
Supercharger                            LT          1     0.52
Targeting Computer                      LT          3        3
(C) Angel ECM Suite                     RT          2      1.5
Jump Jet                                RT          2      0.5
MASC                                    RT          2        2
(C) Gauss Rifle                         RA          6       12
(C) Gauss Rifle Ammo                    RA          2        2
(C) TAG                                  H          1        1


Nightstalker666 posted this 14 July 2018

Vladmir Kerensky Draconavich made his first mech with the help of an ex-COMstar mech technician who specialized in advanced electronics and their repair/design, who as he helped Vlad escape the clans picked up knowledge in their travels of clan technology and integrating as many of all these various comms/targeting/defense/stealth electronics systems into one or several units as possible into design prototypes that Vlad is always the test pilot for. A long-term childhood pet project of his technician's has been LAM's and he's studied in their design at the finest of Blakes facilities before the clans captured him. leading to how Vlad was convinced to go rogue and escape the clans. the first mech I had  modified was a shadow hawk using level one rules I believe,

------ as I only had the Battletech compendium from '90, the 2750 and 3025 Tech readouts, the grey death legion, a bit from a white dwarf magazine-let about a 10 ton mech design. MechWarrior: the BattleTech RPG (from '86) ok so looking over the sarna list of BT books that's what I recognized from the childhood collection I grew up with... now back on track. 

---- so I was using a shadowhawk as the base design switched to an XL engine, made the gauss rifle's 15 tons fit and I think I kept one medium laser and used and 80-ton internal structure and heavier armor than a 55-tonners allowed to typically have. this was due to the wording of the rules and probly since the GM was my dad when I made this first "Nightstalker" and I was like 8-9yo. 

specifically the loop was that it said IS must be at least 10% of the mech. I think I mounted around 15-16 tons of armor only a little thicker in some locations than a 55-tonner would be allowed, but then we referred to where the internal structure says it can mount twice its pts in armor except in case of the head where 3is9af is all it'll ever be w/o ultralight designs which I believe are the exception. 

Nightstalker666 posted this 14 July 2018

so technically this would be a design that has the chassis of an 80 tonner but uses all medium mech equipment and stats and never equips the mech past 55 tons. but I didn't have the rules for that then so I've been reworking the designs to fit up to date rules. 

Prince posted this 14 July 2018

Current LAM rules can be found in StratOps I think- /BTG/ has all the downloads.

Your LAM is sadly, no longer rules-acceptable. In order to balance them (kinda) against other units, no tech that takes up multipule slots can be fitted inside- while you'd think that would still let you use TSM/Light Ferro/Endo-Composite, it really means that no advanced materials outside of Composite structure and some weird combo of compact engine/XL gyro can be used. All cool stealth stuff- out. You also don't have the space for the avionics, landing gear, ect. I think MASC and superchargers can be used tho.

But this doesn't mean you can't do some awesome crap with them! Improved jump jets are totes legal and really opens up some designs, and if you wanna get REAL cheeky breeki LAMs can use internal bomb bays like aerospace- My favorite is a 5-ton bay, which can hold a single nuclear-tipped Arrow IV missile. Naturally, the only LAM that has a bay is the Wasp with a 4-tonner because Herb was captain of I HAD FUN ONCE AND IT WAS AWFUL

Nightstalker666 posted this 16 July 2018

just for fun I wonder what would the specs/rules be on one of those nuc-arrow's? (homebrew's fine) 

yeah I totally forgot about those avionics and whatnots, that's been in the construction for LAM all along. 

indeed I know I can use the supercharger, and as hard as it is to fit ijj's I do love them for when they work, but I still want to know what I can do that add's to speed and how much of which boost affects which mode... grumble that's been a real hard question to get any answers on..

Nightstalker666 posted this 16 July 2018

I'll dig through StratOps btw thank you.

Prince posted this 17 July 2018

just for fun I wonder what would the specs/rules be on one of those nuc-arrow's? (homebrew's fine) 

I think nuke rules are in strat ops too- think "This hex is gone" level of destruction. One Arrow IV nuke makes an explosion the size of one whole mapsheet.

yeah I totally forgot about those avionics and whatnots, that's been in the construction for LAM all along. 

indeed I know I can use the supercharger, and as hard as it is to fit ijj's I do love them for when they work, but I still want to know what I can do that add's to speed and how much of which boost affects which mode... grumble that's been a real hard question to get any answers on..

Basically? In airmech mode/aerospace mode MASC and superchagers don't affect anything. IJJs and efficient tonnage use are the only ways to make good LAMs it seems.

EDIT: Mount extra fuel. You have to track the fuel points you have once you change out of 'mech mode- you automatically have some, but it's only assumed to be like, 1 ton's worth.

Nightstalker666 posted this 17 July 2018

I'll def keep fuel and bomb bays in mind but for now I have to make my LAM's via pen and paper because TDB cant build them legit.. yeah that nuke sounds like something not meant for BT lol no wonder they put the Ares convention into effect.

Prince posted this 17 July 2018

I'll def keep fuel and bomb bays in mind but for now I have to make my LAM's via pen and paper because TDB cant build them legit.. yeah that nuke sounds like something not meant for BT lol no wonder they put the Ares convention into effect.

Yeah, I gotta do all my LAMs the same way since Skyhigh is too busy to add more to SSW- and since LostInSpace disappeared. Anyone know what happened to him?

Nukes have always been in BT lol it's just that they are COMPLETELY overpowered. But when you really get to the nitty-gritty of real world stuff, you end up with people bitching that the great houses aren't just slinging massive ferrous asteroids into each other at C-fraction speeds and the arguments fall apart.

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Thunder posted this 17 July 2018

Arrow iv sized nukes are survivable for a little while. Its actually the secondary effects that are dangerous.

Ferrous? Just for that you shall experience hot fudge sunday.

Cmdr_Kronos_Riker posted this 18 July 2018

I remember trying to develop Private House rules for Omni-LAMs, restricting how they were configured even more...

Heavy Metal Pro had a nice feature to add equipment if needed.

Anyway, Got my house rules on the Omni-LAM on Google Drive.


Nightstalker666 posted this 18 July 2018

@Kronos: simple and straightforward I like it. If I ever make an OMNILAM I will use your formula additions.


I'm sure with the tech in BT it wouldn't be hard to make planetbusters with those kind of engines so um hell yeah- I'm NOT complaining about the houses slinging ferrous asteroids at eachother. 

Nightstalker666 posted this 18 July 2018

well as the arguments for gun rights prove; you outlaw nukes when anyone could get or make one and only the outlaws (Pirates, certain merc types, self-made "Lords" over periphery planets, assassins-though doubtfully for them, etc.) and those in power would have them. just a futuristic upscale to the idea.

I wonder if the Ares convention would allow a star wars program under the following circumstances; its for a capital and its only to be used once the civvies in the area have been cleared out and to the bunkers. this could avoid nuclear fallout and if you keep smaller more tactical sizes you can wipe out half a field of mechs and the central dropship target for an example. this maintains one of the only exceptions that I recall reading that only purely military forces may be targeted for bombardment. as the star wars system was a kinetic force weapon with tungsten rods of a ton or more just being dropped from satellite orbit. G.I. Joe had a good example of what that size could do. initial orbital rotation speed added to gravity and drop distance mean you don't need anything but mass with a dense hard tungsten rod though I wonder just how far it could actually penetrate?.. I'm sure theres a formula somewhere for that. 

But then, if your gunna flaunt the ares convention anyway you could do the same setup but with DU and Cobalt casing to salt the land in a "scorched earth policy"-style gameplay. either is still more cost effective when it comes to reloading such an orbital cannon than building an intricate fission or fusion device even if you use some of the same materials in the core device.. ooh I just got a horrible inspiration; take the HEAT concept and apply it to the star wars projectile. a compact antimatter or neutron bomb shielded by the bulk of the DU w/Cobalt casing of perhaps 3-5 tons and once the projectiles slowed from penetrating the planets crust that detonating would be a hell of a "HEAP" round haha except instead of the acronym being for armor piercing this is a Hell Evolved Anti-Planet round. I cant help but get a sick giggle out of how disgustingly terribly awesome that would be. presumably even if you didn't truly "break" the planet with such a weapon you would certainly leave effects similar to Tunguska or is the Yellowstone blew full on.

Nightstalker666 posted this 18 July 2018

Damn StratOps just became a fast fave, everything I haven't had rules for or at least "The DrawingBoard" to create seems to be in here!

Captain posted this 24 July 2018

Which "StratOps" are you guys looking at, as I don't see rules for nukes or LAMs in the copy of Strategic Operations I have?

icehellion posted this 24 July 2018

Which "StratOps" are you guys looking at, as I don't see rules for nukes or LAMs in the copy of Strategic Operations I have?


I think they aren't talking about LAMs any longer.

Rules for LAMs are in Interstellar Operations.

Nightstalker666 posted this 24 July 2018

yeah sorry was still reading and had to jump offline awhile. but for nukes I found these rules

( ) 

and sarna has some examples but no technical data for creating or using so I'm glad I found those (above, in link) 

I gotta go find me a copy of that Intersteller Op, thx I'd actually shelved looking for those rules for a bit while D&D was going on over the weekend.

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