Sagittaire SGT-8S (Custom Unit)

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  • Last Post 30 April 2017
Questia posted this 22 February 2017

Preface

Sagittaire picture from Sarna

Hi. Thought you could dodge a Hunchback's AC/20? Try dodging all these pulse lasers up close.

Alright, since I can't post the lengthy thing here (max characters too low!), let's do it in two posts.

On a side note, wow this thing doesn't even accept .txt or .html files. Are you kidding me?

tl;dr swap LPLs and ER PPC for pure PPCs, drop a heatsink for a C3 Slave, move MPLs to front, voila - AWS-8Q crossed with Black Hawk-KU Prime, with TC goodness.

 

Sagittaire SGT-8S


Mass: 95 tons

Tech Base: Inner Sphere

Chassis Config: Biped

Rules Level: Tournament Legal

Era: Clan Invasion

Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A

Production Year: 3071

Cost: 20,604,675 C-Bills

Battle Value: 2,257


Chassis: Skuel Heavy TRQ Standard

Power Plant: Pitban 285 Fusion XL Engine

Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h

Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h

Jump Jets: HildCo LFT 9-X

    Jump Capacity: 90 meters

Armor: Starshield Special Heavy Standard Armor

Armament:

    3 Tiegart PPCs

    5 Magna 600P Medium Pulse Lasers

    1 Magna 200P Small Pulse Laser

    1  C3 Computer (Slave)

Manufacturer: Robinson Standard BattleWorks

    Primary Factory: Robinson

Communications System: Sony MSF-31

Targeting and Tracking System: Federated Stalker w/ Targeting Module

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Questia posted this 22 February 2017

 

Overview:

The original SGT-8R Sagittaire was first and foremost a specialized urban 

combat machine, born from demand brought forth by the FedCom Civil War. Though 

it typically performed with frightening efficiency in its home field, the 

design often suffered for that very reason. Without much of a long-range 

defense, good commanders would snipe it from afar, leaving its engine exposed 

to return fire once it closed the distance - or worse, stopping it outright 

before it could do even that.


Its sister design, the 9D, was an attempt to rectify that flaw by replacing its 

pulse laser-heavy array with a far more versatile set of weapons. Despite its 

effectiveness, it did introduce a few new flaws in the process alongside its 

loss in urban combat potential; namely its ammunition dependency and its 

susceptibility to cook-offs. This made the already fragile design even more so; 

a major flaw for an assault 'Mech.


These flaws were made evident when the Word of Blake attacked Robinson Standard 

BattleWorks at the beginning of 3071. Though the Sagittaires stationed around 

the 'Mech works performed with distinction, they too fell to the Blakist 

incursion. Not long after, the facilities were under their control.


Nonetheless, the design and its Robinsons-made brethren proved effective enough 

that the Blakists would keep the facility intact for their own use. The first 

order of business: get them to produce 'Mechs for them.


This proved to be more trouble than originally anticipated. Chief among their 

problems was the lack of parts; the chaos surrounding the planet scrambled - or 

sabotaged - supply lines, leaving them short on Large Pulse Lasers and ER PPCs. 

This left the SGT-8R design without its weaponry, until the local Zeta Branch 

in charge of the facility struck upon a solution that seemed quite obvious in 

hindsight. This was the genesis of the 8S variant.


Capabilities:

The 8S' capabilities had not changed much from the 8R, owing to the former 

being a refit of sorts of the latter. Its mobility and electronics stayed 

mostly the same, though part of its armor had been moved around to better 

protect its weapons.


Said weapons, however, have been changed. Gone were the Large Pulse Lasers and 

ER PPC; in their place were three Tiegart PPCs - the same as those in the arms 

of the original Thug. The two rear-facing Medium Pulse Lasers were moved to the 

front; the frame was modified such that they lay side by side above the 

cockpit. Owing to space constraints caused by the LPL-to-PPC swap, a heat sink 

that was once in the right arm was removed. That last ton went, instead, to a 

C3 Slave unit tucked away in the right leg. The targeting computer still 

remained there, needing nothing else but software updates to be attuned to the 

new weapons set-up.


Though the modifications were relatively minor, in both testing and combat 

those changes changed its mission profile significantly. Gone was its urban 

combat over-specialization; with the capability to keep unloading an 

Awesome-8Q's worth of firepower with enhanced accuracy, it was finally a 

credible threat at long range. Though the array lacked the ER PPC's ability to 

really reach out and strike a target, it was deemed to be a minor loss at best.


Even so, it still proved to be just as worthy of an adversary in close combat 

as its ancestor. The loss of the rear-firing lasers was a footnote compared to 

the increase in forward firepower, especially considering that its arm-mounted 

weapons could perform rear-guard duty on their own anyway. Additionally, the 

LPL-PPC swap was an added boon due to the latter's compatibility with the 

aimed-shot function, allowing it to blast open sections with surgical 

precision.


The C3 Slave unit, meanwhile, opened up new possibilities to its design as both 

spotter and fire-support. Though its layout was vulnerable to ECM disruption, 

the times when the network remained intact really showed the design's strength 

in teams. PPC bolts were directed from afar with startling accuracy, often by 

other Sagittaires who themselves were tearing apart the opposition up close. 


With its sister variant, the 9D, carrying a C3 Master unit, the two were used 

in tandem to systematically crush anyone who dared to retake the planet.


Deployment:

The 8S variant, however, was merely a stopgap measure while the Blakists 

established its own supply lines, being superceded by the 10X variant. 

Nonetheless, it did see deployment in decent numbers, mostly around the 

Blakist-controlled Robinsons Standard BattleWorks and in cities all over 

Robinson.


The design, however, is no longer in production as of 3079 - the damage that 

the 'Mech works sustained in the liberation of the planet rendered its 

Sagittaire lines inoperable.


Variants:

As mentioned several times, its ancestry goes back to the original 8R design, 

being a refit of said design. Its production was done alongside the 9D, before 

the facilities were retooled to produce the 10X.


Additional: 

Out-of-universe note: This variant and its corresponding fluff was taken from 

by Redshirt's (from the BattleTech forums) variant suggestion in the topic 

"Tell me about: the Sagittaire".


================================================================================

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Internal Structure: Standard                     145 points                9.50

Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             285                       8.50

    Walking MP: 3

    Running MP: 5

    Jumping MP: 3 Standard

    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL                                   6.00

Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             16(32)                    6.00

    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 LA, 1 RA

Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00

Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00

    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 288                 18.00




                                                      Internal       Armor      

                                                      Structure      Factor     

                                                Head     3            9         

                                        Center Torso     30           44        

                                 Center Torso (rear)                  15        

                                           L/R Torso     20           30        

                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10        

                                             L/R Arm     16           32        

                                             L/R Leg     20           38        




================================================================================

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PPC                                          RA        10        3         7.00

Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2.00

Small Pulse Laser                            RA        2         1         1.00

PPC                                          LA        10        3         7.00

Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2.00

Medium Pulse Laser                           RT        4         1         2.00

Targeting Computer                           RT        -         8         8.00

PPC                                          LT        10        3         7.00

Medium Pulse Laser                           CT        4         1         2.00

Medium Pulse Laser                           HD        4         1         2.00

C3 Computer (Slave)                          RL        0         1         1.00

                                            Free Critical Slots: 3




BattleForce Statistics

MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 23

3j         5       5       3       0      4     2   Structure:  4

Special Abilities: C3S, ENE, MHQ1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

 

icehellion posted this 22 February 2017

I am not sure so many Medium Pulse Lasers are needed.

With Inner Sphere tech, Medium Lasers are so much better.

Questia posted this 23 February 2017

As much as I am inclined to agree (the MPLs are only advantageous at 2 hexes), I can't easily make the swap to medium lasers for these reasons--

  • Fluff reasons. The thing is just a glorified LPL-PPC swap with a few things changed to make it a production variant instead of a unique field refit. If I made the swap and strapped on more MLs, there'd be bigger internal reworking to do. Is is related to the second reason...
  • Crit space. This thing was so jam-packed, I had to remove a heat sink - and still, it only has two real critslots left (the third is in the left leg). Doing a straight swap, I'd be six tons over (counting the TC change), five and a half if I maxed the armor, and with zero clue as to what to place in four slots total. There might be some way, though...
  • Identity. I always considered the SGT-8R to be the prime example of TC+Pulse in the Inner Sphere, so I wanted to keep at least part of that identity. Plus, flashbulbs were very Davion once upon a time, and even though this is technically Blakist heresy, it should, IMHO, still have that flair.

On an unrelated note, the Sagittaire benefits a lot from a Clan-tech straight swap -- that would be like the Black Python's bigger, slower, but more brutal big brother.

Prince posted this 23 February 2017

As much as I am inclined to agree (the MPLs are only advantageous at 2 hexes), I can't easily make the swap to medium lasers for these reasons--

<snip>

I like the way you think.

I'd like to toss out- since it has been verified in fluff that the X-pulse is literally an attachment from Bethel labs, you're variant would easily stay with the tech curve in 3100+ with that modification. THAT would be some area-denial.

Questia posted this 24 February 2017

Now that would be an interesting DC refit, and one that may cause the Davions to regret taking Robinsons for granted.

There's a 3145 variant with R-E lasers, IIRC - let me see if I can do something with that... failing that, maybe another 8R-based Sagittaire is in order.

(What? I love the design - ever since I saw the cover of TRO: 3067, I've been hooked.)

icehellion posted this 24 February 2017

As much as I am inclined to agree (the MPLs are only advantageous at 2 hexes), I can't easily make the swap to medium lasers for these reasons--

  • Fluff reasons. The thing is just a glorified LPL-PPC swap with a few things changed to make it a production variant instead of a unique field refit. If I made the swap and strapped on more MLs, there'd be bigger internal reworking to do. Is is related to the second reason...
  • Crit space. This thing was so jam-packed, I had to remove a heat sink - and still, it only has two real critslots left (the third is in the left leg). Doing a straight swap, I'd be six tons over (counting the TC change), five and a half if I maxed the armor, and with zero clue as to what to place in four slots total. There might be some way, though...
  • Identity. I always considered the SGT-8R to be the prime example of TC+Pulse in the Inner Sphere, so I wanted to keep at least part of that identity. Plus, flashbulbs were very Davion once upon a time, and even though this is technically Blakist heresy, it should, IMHO, still have that flair.

On an unrelated note, the Sagittaire benefits a lot from a Clan-tech straight swap -- that would be like the Black Python's bigger, slower, but more brutal big brother.

 

Good points, especially the fluff and identity ones.

Prince posted this 04 March 2017

Here's mine. I tried to fit another DHS for a ton of armor, but I couldn't without damaging the aesthetic. I feel like one R-E laser is enough; the large is arguably the best per math. X-pulses were used for more anti-armor and anti-lights. Plasma rifle cause it's just so good.

Sagittaire SGT- i dunno lol

Mass: 95 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 20,633,925 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,468

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 285 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
2 Heavy PPCs
1 Plasma Rifle
1 Large R-e Laser
2 Medium X-Pulse Lasers
1 Small X-Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 145 points 9.50
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 285 8.50
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL 6.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 6.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 288 18.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 8
Center Torso 30 45
Center Torso (rear) 15
L/R Torso 20 30
L/R Torso (rear) 10
L/R Arm 16 30
L/R Leg 20 40

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small X-Pulse Laser CT 3 1 1.00
Large R-e Laser RT 10 5 8.00
Plasma Rifle LT 10 2 6.00
Heavy PPC RA 15 4 10.00
Medium X-Pulse Laser RA 6 1 2.00
Heavy PPC LA 15 4 10.00
Medium X-Pulse Laser LA 6 1 2.00
@Plasma Rifle (10) HD - 1 1.00
@Plasma Rifle (10) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 7

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 10 Points: 25
3j 3 4 2 0 4 3 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Donteras posted this 27 April 2017

ugg, I'm so behind the times... again.

What's an R-e laser and where can I find the rules for it?

icehellion posted this 27 April 2017

ugg, I'm so behind the times... again.

What's an R-e laser and where can I find the rules for it?

 

A RE Laser is a Re-Engineered Lasers, a mix between a Pulse and a Heavy Laser invented by the Federated Suns in 3130.

For the rules, they are in Field Manual 3145.

Prince posted this 27 April 2017

They are also in TacOps.

Essentially, RE-Lasers have a constant -1 to-hit after errata and always deal full damage despite armor type. They are only really notable as NOW they edge barely out of standard lasers, and the shitstorm that occured on the boards when they were unveiled because a dev couldn't handle that his math was off.

Thunder posted this 30 April 2017

So whats the plot summary of said "shit storm"?

Prince posted this 30 April 2017

So whats the plot summary of said "shit storm"?

Alexander Knight made the rules for them, and initially they lacked the -1 to-hit. Someone started a thread about their utility, in which someone doled up a quick excel spreadsheet that showed using math that the only R-E laser that was worthwhile was the Large- all others, when compared to their equal weight in standard lasers, always fared worse against special armors as the increased damage of the RE laser could not edge out against a sheer number of hits. Alex joined the thread and began to complain instead of taking any criticism, when people were still making basic spreadsheets that clearly showed that only a minor increase in damage or that to-hit would make them worthwhile. By this point that thread had ballooned like a carcass in June.

One of the "better" mods- Moonsword I think- tried to diffuse the situation by stating it was a "side-grade", but the battlemaster (and total bro) Darrian Wolfe began to get angry at Alexander Knight for being a prat in a far nicer tone than he was worth. Alexander Knight had by this point resorted to name-calling ad hominem attacks as some of his detractors included Diablo48 and other old board members who were essentially professional trolls. People wanted Alex controlled and were getting rightfully mad at the other mods for not listening, who continued to protect him.

The final blow hit when the thread was up to over 20 pages (!). Darrian Wolfe had his battlemaster title stripped and several old members were banned including said professional trolls, but in the chaos it was revealed that the board battlemasters and mods had a "secret" board where they essentially complained and circle-jerked at their own fanbase. The outcry was huge, whole pages were deleted and many people (including myself, tho I wasn't IP banned til later) received bans for simply responding. The damage control was delicious, while some mods who were disenfranchised with it all leaked hilarious personal details to 4chan's /tg/ battletech threads and began trolling them in response even harder and kicked off a now years-long fatwa of smug anime girl faces.

End result? Knightmare AND Herb stepped back in shame and it made the mods all the more insular, with their secret clubhouse forum discovered (but not infiltrated; it's most likely been changed). Alexander Knight got a public reaming and tried to act like his eventual balancing of the R-E laser was "HIS WHOLE IDEA ALL ALONG !!1!11" but really is ignored and only now posts with any regularity. Huge numbers of older-and smarter- board members left in disgust or were banned, and the mods still aren't trusted to handle disputes between them and their board members.

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