Doing Small Harms, or How Machiavelli does not aprove of Battle Armor.

  • Last Post 22 August 2019
Thunder posted this 30 July 2019

I've realized I've talked much about various Battle Armor designs, but haven't shared them.  Time to fix that.

We shall start with the Haboob, my latest creation and more like the 3rd iteration of the fire support elemental design concept.


The Haboob is derived from the Monolith.
Named after giant dust storms that can envelope cities, The Haboob is intended to be a mechanized design, capable of both giving long range fire support, while also being a credible threat with anti-mech attacks.  Its a mixed bag Twin Light Machine guns are OK, but not really good Anti-mech damage.  The LRM-3 only has 4 missile salvos, and the only 9 points of armor leaves it weak to clan 10 point weapons.  It has ground speed only which is a step down from classic Elemental armor, but can at least match the elementals speed in open terrain.

Alpha strike stats, its decent, if not overwhelming.  Can't jump, but tends to have better long range damage compared to normal elementals.  Stealth armor makes it slightly more survivable in mechanized operations and at longer ranges compared to the To hit bonus from jumping.  But you pay for the extras you get in PV.

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Thunder posted this 22 August 2019

.1 damage at short. Doesnt grant the heat ability.

Iirc it does extra damage to infantry, starts fires easilly, but it didnt add heat to mechs hit with it.

Prince posted this 22 August 2019

What about the firedrake needler? I know that has a chance to cause fires in battletech; would one or two be able to give the "HT" for damage abilities?

Thunder posted this 21 August 2019

Alpha strike conversion doesnt pay attention to which weapon is in the AP mount. Its just adds .05 damage to the short range damage for a suit.

Prince posted this 20 August 2019

With 4 AP mounts you could slap on 4 Mauser IICs for a point of armor- could give you another 3-4 damage at a similar range, may be enough to push it to 12 damage in alpha strike?

Can do it with a heavy suit if you sacrifice enough armor.  AS stats it would have 1 armor bubble.  TW.. 4 points of armor.

The more rational design would be 2 LB-X, and 12 points of Improved stealth.  Though to be fair, once they detach from the omni-mechs they're hitching a ride with, they're still barely mobile landmines.

Else wise, units with infantry bays.  Which vehicles tend to be good for.  Especially when a 4 ton investment in cargo capacity can fit a squad of assault suits carrying a combined 12 Medium lasers.  Bang per tonnage spent is more then decent.

Hm, 70kg spent on 2 points of armor... can't help but feel like it could go to something else, though it's just short of a small bump in MP (which is questionable at best). Maybe add a OS SRM2 with infernos? Or absolutely FILL it with AP mounts for Mauser IICs? Or be a right cheeky bastard, go mixed tech to replace improved stealth for mimetic?

Definitely agreed on the latter- the Maxim Mk.II is sinful, and dropping squads of Taranis into woods never gets old.

Thunder posted this 18 August 2019



As much Dakka as I can fit into Battle Armor.  4 Clan ER Smalls, 4 anti-personal mounts (Which occasionally matter for alpha strike conversion.  Especially when there are 4 of them.)  And Dual Vibro claws.  And Squad size 6.  4 points of basic stealth because there was nothing else to spend tonnage on.

In other thoughts, the name means "Power Monster" in some obscure forgotten language.  Plus or minus a few letters changing.  Always a problem when translating from obscure forgotten alphabets as well.

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Thunder posted this 16 August 2019

Can do it with a heavy suit if you sacrifice enough armor.  AS stats it would have 1 armor bubble.  TW.. 4 points of armor.

The more rational design would be 2 LB-X, and 12 points of Improved stealth.  Though to be fair, once they detach from the omni-mechs they're hitching a ride with, they're still barely mobile landmines.

Else wise, units with infantry bays.  Which vehicles tend to be good for.  Especially when a 4 ton investment in cargo capacity can fit a squad of assault suits carrying a combined 12 Medium lasers.  Bang per tonnage spent is more then decent.

Prince posted this 16 August 2019

I just don't really like the assault suits

There more like slightly-mobile landmines to me. I like my mobility.

Thunder posted this 12 August 2019

Not a heavy suit.  Can do it with an assault sized suit.

Also 4 BA LB-x would only give FLAK4/4/0.  I rounded wrong.

Prince posted this 12 August 2019

BA LB-X.  For a Clan point, its the equivalent of having a short ranged LB-20x.  Not terrible, but they're bloody heavy.  On the other hand, its possible to have 4 on a chassis,  So that's an LB-80x.  There is some potential in that...  For Alpha Strike,  FLAK 5/5/0.  So if you really really don't like VTOL's and aerospace at upto Medium range...

Right? The Thunderbird II for the RotS gets close- it's got a battle armor C3 and DWPs a BA LBX and an AP Gauss. I think you should be easily able to make a heavy suit with 3 alpha strike "armor" and 3 DWP'ed Battle armor LB-X.

Thunder posted this 07 August 2019

BA LB-X.  For a Clan point, its the equivalent of having a short ranged LB-20x.  Not terrible, but they're bloody heavy.  On the other hand, its possible to have 4 on a chassis,  So that's an LB-80x.  There is some potential in that...  For Alpha Strike,  FLAK 5/5/0.  So if you really really don't like VTOL's and aerospace at upto Medium range...

Thunder posted this 07 August 2019

 Skipping the 6000 character limit.


The Main Variant.  2 Bomb racks and a flamer.  Nothing too major.  Converting to an Inner Sphere chasis and improving the armor coverage and type (Improved Stealth, 5 points instead of the usual 3) does not interfere with this designs existence, so if you wanted, CAR 4 is perfectly viable without the stats changing.


First Alternate Variant.  All the bombs, uses a micro pulse laser instead of a flamer.  Inner Sphere Compatible upto 4 points of improved stealth armor

The Twin LMG variant was not interesting enough to get an Alpha Strike Card.  Mostly because the ECM variant does the same thing, and adds ECM.


Alas, this variant Doesn't work with better armor,  But it does work with more armor.  The Alpha Strike Stats are compatible with an Inner Sphere Squad at least.  TW side, still uses basic stealth, but has 5 points.  Using an Inner Sphere chassis with Clan everything else just feels like cheating sometimes.  Maybe if the clan Chasis had some bonus...  Like regenerative armor because of the Hargel...  Meanwhile, flying SRM-10 with 4 Salvo's isn't bad.  (You were expected to read the previous posts fluff,  but in case you didn't. It mounts an aSRM-2)


Bombs are Neat... More Dakka is better.
Mongrel variant could use 2 aSRM-2's with 4 salvo's to get the desired results.  Gets 5 Standard stealth armor out of it.  Baseline model... SRM-3 and 2 SRM-1's works.  (Which was also a possibility for that Mark 7 armor.)  The funny part is that it retains it's AM special ability, even though a proper Swarm attack wouldn't work.   

Also, I'm not really worried about the armor amount or type changing between Variants.  This is definitely not a modular design.  If you want to switch weapons, you'll need to build another suit,  which is a strike against it strategically.


Behold My erratic wandering mind!  Went and made a non-Bomb variant, come back to the Bomb Variants, and the next will be non-Bomb again.

This one is another victim of trying to do too many things.  Bombs take up lots of space,  ECM takes up lots of space.  Missiles take up lots of space.  Stealth Systems take up lots of space.  Net result,  only basic stealth fits.  Still you can fit 6 points of armor with 3 missile shots.


This one has the problem of the Card I made doesn't match the Stats suggested in the fluff.  Which means that Past me left me another mystery.

2 Damage at long range means I switched over to pure missiles at some point.  Need to do 3 TW average damage to get that Alpha strike Value.  And because there is almost never enough ammo, 4 Damage really needs to be done to get the desired results.  4 LRM-1's would work, but the space runs out quickly.  An LRM-4 and an LRM-1 work, and stay within space limits for basic stealth armor.

Mongrelizing it,  You get more armor out of the deal, but it still has to be basic stealth.

TW side, this one suffers from not enough space and ammo.  Having a speedy little VTOL with improved stealth flying about the back line giving fire support would be decent, but in the end its only an LRM-10 with 8 shots. (Which would be a variant unto itself.  Definitely not the variant being portrayed with this card.)

Also oddly, the stats given in the fluff do work well with mongrelization.  Up to 4 points of Improved stealth armor even.

Thunder posted this 07 August 2019


The problem with this design from a classic battletech perspective is the armor.   Only the lightest of weapons can actually be deflected by   the armor that is there.   Medium and heavy weapons will just vaporize anything they hit.   In addition it would of been nice if Improved stealth armor could of been fit.   Its amazing what a few extra bits of +1 modifiers can do for your survival rate.

Fortunately these flaws fall away in Alpha Strike

The original idea when coming up with this design was to maximize the number of BOMB special abilities that could be used by a battle armor.   And the answer is, 2.   No more.   There is no space in the body for additonal bomb racks.   That portion of the design process done with, fitting additional equipment became the next point of interest.   First there is the potential for armor.   For a Clan point of elementals the only numbers that matter for armor is 3 points or 9 points.   These are the thresholds for 1 point of alpha strike armor or two.   And if you push for 2 points of armor there is no room for additional equipment.   1 point will have to do.   After all thats all the usual inner sphere squad will have anyways.   Next choice is armor type.   Standard armor gives a slight increase in tonnage availability, but basic stealth gives a significant boost in survivability without taking up as much tonnage or space.

The point that allows basic stealth to preform so well is the abstraction of Alpha strike.   All the battle armor stealth systems give the STL specialability granting a +1 at short, +1 at Medium and +2 at long.   A moderate improvement over its Total War based stats for basic stealth.

This leaves the choice of what guns can be squeezed into what space and tonnage is left over.

So I envision this battle armor design being released via transport, or even high altituded dropped on top of heavy to assult formations.   From there their high manuverabiity should allow them to harrass the living hell out of heavy forces, resulting in a disproportionate ratio of Force used to tie up and cripple a more expensive unit.

Alternativly the reativly high BOMB value used enmass can cripple or destroy anything they can reach.   Against slower units this is easilly done as just another part of the above.   Against fast units though, a degree of trickery and probably outright ambush would be required,   Though   Defensivly, a few points of these protectiong the   back side of their heavies would curtail the tendency of back stabbers to operate too closely to their intended victums.

So Given 160kg of mass left over what effects can be generated?

First there is a flamer.   150kg.   In alpha strike it does 1 damage at short range and produces 1 heat.   Its the heat that makes it the primary choice for this armor design.   The ability to make it even harder for your target to shoot back accuratly seems a wonderful Idea.   Meanwhile the somewhat anemic damage is mitigated with anti-mech attacks forcing cricitcal hits.

Next is the ever popular Micro pulse laser.   2 damage at short.   Good enough for the slyph, good enough for its successor.

Now the initial Idea for a longer range variant went for twin Light Machine guns.   1 damage at short and Medium offers a bit of "Sniping" potential

Of course then I realized that with an advanced SRM-2 and a bit of ammo I could do 2 damage at short and medium.

Emboldened by this success a variant was developed that dropped the bomb racks in favor of more dirrect firepower.   Alas the elusive 4 damage at short and medium can not be reached, but a respectable 3 point Thud can be generated at short and Medium range.

Going back to the original mission profile the idea of ECM seemed a good one.   After mounting the ECM system there didn't seem to be enough mass left over to mount a weapon heavy enough to be of any real use.   The lessons of the Missile heavy varaints prevailed.   Mounting an old fashioned srm 1 gives just enough damage to grant a single point of damage at short and medium range.

Finally, on a lark, the bomb racks were removed once again to see what could be done with LRMs.   A LRM-3 and an AP Guass rifle grants a respectable 2/2/1 damage profile finally allowing a variant of the Miasma to be a true sniper.   (Hmmm might be a good Idea to kill the short and medium damage...   No point paying PV for capabilities that shouldn't be used....)

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Thunder posted this 05 August 2019

Mort- was going for pure alpha strike stats. Wanted all the numbers to be the biggest. If being more thematically appropriate, heavy flamers, maybe the BA lbx cannon. (Which I have not looked into much... What abuses await...) Missle launchers, the usual space marine heavy weapons.

Kerberos- hell i think you left a review when I originally posted it, saying that it was done right.

Inferno crab- because making up horrific animals in setting is the fastest way to get a good name for something.

ER small lasers. 10 is good. 20 is better. (Even if the alpha strike version uses a medium recoiless rifle) Kerub is the current winner of the ridiculous firepower award. But, the alchemist is mechanized. Which is significantly useful.

Prince posted this 05 August 2019

Inferno Crab


I've got a similar design for lugging around banks of DWP'ed medium lasers too somewhere. It's hilarious when you dump them in heavy woods and your opponent has no artillery- it just makes a 9-hex bubble of NOPE.

I WANT to love that assault suit, but 4 AP Gauss rifles? I know the damn thing is pure sex, but there's gotta be something a little more interesting for it...

Prince posted this 05 August 2019

That "close quarters" scrapper is legitimately spooky- 10 5-point damage hits and an SRM5 from a full star is no joke.

I totally agree on the combining of modular packs with DWPs- even with errata saying "no", it seriously hobbles a suit on slots, ESPECIALLY if they aren't clan or aren't going to use standard armors.

Thunder posted this 05 August 2019

 6000 Character Limit.  Meh.


The promised extra card for the Alchemist.

Thunder posted this 05 August 2019


Though the Brimstone and other next generation Battle Armor suits offered a variety of exciting new options, they achieved their goals by specialization.  No doubt the lowborn free birth scum of the Inner Sphere would be fine with such an arrangement, but the Warriors of Kerensky demand more from their technology.  For the Clans the ability to adapt their machinery to the task at hand as become a hallmark of their superiority. 

Clan Hell Horse in praticular desired a Modular Heavy Battle Armor design.  Their Rock Golem and the Brimstone gave them a significant margin of superiority, but both were specialist designs.  The ability to retailor for specific tasks would improve flexibility, and perhaps even better allow for a consolidation of production.  Why build several different suits when a single suit can do all of their jobs.

The Alchemist can in most respects be considered a descendant of the Brimstone.  The same basic chassis is at the core of both designs.  The Alchemist's main difference and defining feature is it's plethora of modular weapons mounts.  Twin Gun mounts and a Missile capable mount allows for a wide variety of weapon options.  In order to maximize the weapon variety a trade off in armor was forced.  Though advanced armors offer superior protection through target jamming, traditional armor still offers advantages in both mass savings and bulk.  As such even the largest weapons can be mounted in the Alchemist's central mount.  Recent innovations however have allowed over sized weapons to be mounted in the arm mounts as well;  the Detachable Weapons Pack.  Though this system limits the maneuverability of the suit greatly the trade off in firepower is more then worth it.

The initial production run of the Alchemist included 4 configurations.  The base configuration uses twin AP Gauss rifles backed by an Advanced SRM pack with a significant reserve of ammo.  This configuration offers good coverage against all targets that can be found on the battle field.

The Fire support Variant can command the battlefield with it's LRM launcher. If the battle lasts longer then the ammo bins, then the ER Small Laser can still influence the fight.

The Anti Infantry variant has had mixed reviews since it's inception.  Though the mix of weapons can have terrifying impact on unarmored infantry, many warriors seem to prefer stacked Anti-personal Gauss rifles for there superior range and damage against hardened targets while maintaining the ability to create significant casualties to soft targets.

The Heavy Weapons Configuration is something of a coup. Similar to the Corona, but with greater resilience and firepower.  The only downside compared to the Corona is a slight decrease in mobility due to the DWP.


Fire Support

Anti Infantry

Heavy weapon

Close quarters

The Alchemist has a slight and minor problem in that its not exactly a legal design.  Any one of its configurations can be made with ease,  but its gimmick of combining Modular weapon mounts with detachable weapon packs was deemed a "Nope" by errata.  Fortunately I now have enough experience and wisdom to be able to ignore rules that interfere with a perfectly neat idea.  The world is a more interesting place because of this.  You may thank me later.

Basic stats, Move of 2 (Because of DWP's)  14 points of standard clan armor.  Guns are pretty much always in a DWP.

Base configuration,  2 AP Gauss, Advanced SRM-3 with 7 salvo's.  Its the one most obviously descended from the Brimstone.

Fire Support, ERSmall laser and an LRM-4 with 6 Salvos.  Remaining tonnage is taken up by a Light TAG, because why not.

Anti-Infantry.  Heavy Recoiless Rifle, Heavy machine Gun, Flamer.  I Don't like this one.  The weapons mix is Meh.  There is of course the 3 AP Gauss variant. Also boring Good for 4/4/0 damage.  On other Hand, Heavy Flamer, Micro Pulse and an SRM-4.  Gives 5/3/0 with HT 2/0/0.  That's a fairly nasty damage profile, especially against non-heat tracking units.  SRM ammo is light though, oh well.  I'll tack an extra card on at the end.

Heavy Weapon:  ER Medium laser, and a OS SRM-2.  A Case of very effective in Total Warfare being boiled down to steaming piles of Meh in Alpha Strike.  Makes sense.  Many Meh Mechs Murder Marvelously, once translated to Alpha Strike.

Close Quarters:  A New addition.  Being upset at the Heavy Weapon Variant's lack of impressiveness, a design with more dakka was required.  Twin ERSmall Lasers and an SRM-1 with significant ammo reserves scrap by with just enough damage to round up to 5.  Which incidentally has no stock equivalent.  You can have the armor and damage, but this one is Mechanized.

And of course being named the Alchemist.  A play on the Elemental name, both designs being the centered Multi-purpose modular designs that they are.

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Thunder posted this 05 August 2019



Clan Hell Horse, Known for their extensive use of combined arms.  While some would look at their use of Vehicles in place of Proper mechs to be their distinguishing trait, but their true pride has always been the warrior, right down to their infantry.  It was they who developed the elemental phenotype, and they who embraced the promised of Battle Armor when it was developed.  When their edge In Battle Armor was threatened by the Inner Spheres introduction of new assault Battle Armor capable of standing up against the standard Elemental Armor, they responded with the Gnome.  Now the edge given to them by the Gnome is being threatened by New Clan designs.  Their response this time, fire and Brimstone.


There are two new designs in the Clan Sphere that threaten the Balance of power, the Corona and the Golem.  The Golem is perhaps the most direct threat to the Gnomes superiority, offering a massive increase in firepower and Armor over the Gnome.  While the Gnome can still hold it's own in a knife fight, The disparity in missile throw weight can quickly turn a fight in the Golem's favor.

The Corona offers a new way of using Battle Armor.  Mechanized deployment and superior weapons range allows this relatively unmaneuverable design to quickly enter and stay in action.  The Medium Pulse lasers makes this one of the most lethally effective battle Armor designs to date.

Hell Horse Scientists took both of these designs into account when they began work on the Brimstone.  Originally the Brimstone was suppose to be a counter to the Corona.  As such it follows much the same combat model as the Corona,  The ability to quickly destroy the Corona was another Combat Goal in the original design process.  To achieve this goal the Advanced SRM pack was reached for once more.  Using a larger launcher with a much deeper ammo bin compared to the Gnome the Brimstone is able to put out respectable damage longer then most other Battle Armor designs currently in use.  Unfortunately the Balance between weight of fire, length of fire, and secondary weapons help up development of the Brimstone for considerable amounts of time.  Several prototype stages were produced, some seeing action, but no solution set really ever worked.  Either the Secondary weapons would take up to much weight and detract from the missiles, or The missiles systems would take up to much space, leaving the design in a pinch once their ammo ran dry.  The Project was nearly shelved when two events happened. The Ghost Bears unveiled the Golem, and the Jade Falcons introduced the AP Gauss Rifle.  The AP-Gauss rifle finally gave the Brimstone a suitable Secondary weapon with enough Damage, range and endurance to keep the Brimstone in the fight once it's missiles were gone.  The missile pack on the other hand finally settles on an ASRM-4, slightly lighter then the Golem's Launcher, with three times the firing time as the Golem.  As a Final measure to help insure the Brimstone's superiority over competing Battle Armor Designs, it incorporates a substantial amount of Stealth Technologies giving it an Edge in the long range duels that can develop between these next generations of Battle Armor.


 14 points stealth, AP Gauss, aSRM-4 with 6 salvo's.  Mechanized.  Can't really move once it gets to the battle, but able to punch out decent to above average damage.  It was intended to match up against Corona Armor.  Corona's would require 3 hits to take out a Brimstone, while 2 Salvo's worth of fire should be more then enough to take out a Corona.  Course then I turned around and upgraded the Corona...

In Alpha Strike, its a relatively normal unit.  There is nothing that matches it's stats exactly,  but that's because the best match's are faster then it is.  Cuchulainn Support armor.  Whatever that is.

This particular design did spawn two other designs.

And the Corona II, which uses a Detachable Weapons Pack to free up tonnage for more armor is exactly the same as the stock Cuchulainn in alpha strike Stats.  No separate post for you!

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Thunder posted this 05 August 2019


What did you expect from a realm who's favorite additive to pure alcohol is Ouzo. Though the Kopis claims to stress firepower over all else, a recent addition to the Battle Armor scene is more then willing to duke it out for that title. Named for the three headed hound which guards the underworld, the Kerberos stands ready to guard the boarders of the Free Worlds league. Whats left of it. Ok, maybe the boarders of Steiner space, on the non-Steiner side.

Clearly based on the Fenrir, the Kerberos is a Quad Battle Armor design that takes the weapons platform concept to a new level. Eschewing the multi-functionally of the Lyran design, the Kerberos instead focuses on a level of raw firepower never before seen in Battle Armor. Three Medium lasers are mounted using detachable weapon mounts. The unbalancing normally associated with the DWP's is countered by the natural stability of a Quad Design. There is still considerable stress on the motive musculature however slowing the Kerberos to a crawl. Though this would normally be a vulnerability, use of recovered Mimic armor technology from the former Word of Blake oppressors makes the Kerberos harder to hit then it's Lyran counterpart. Slightly more armor coverage also compares favorably to the Lyran's mongrel.

Though the Tri-Laser Kerberos made an impression and gained renown to help boost sales. A Twin Laser design is far more battlefield capable. The simple expedient of more then doubling the armor carried gives the Kerberos the longevity to really make an impression on the battlefield.



One of my first forays into Detachable weapon packs.  All in all, a nasty little ground holder.  Medium lasers give decent range and punch, Mimic armor make them hard to dislodge.  For TW, these are arguably more effective then the Kerubs;  range matters.

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icehellion posted this 04 August 2019


Because Ice Hellion wanted Terminator armor.


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